too much positive caster

Again, I recommend consulting an expert for further assistance on your vintage setup. Remember there is no absolute right numbers to align your truck to. This is meant to be a good starting point for a street car setup, but will require adjustment to fit your needs and vehicle specifics. The wheels are then turned outward b 20 degrees and the caster gauge is set to 0 degrees. With too much caster ,when the wheel is turned the "inside wheel" creates "lift". This is because KPI geometry also creates a jacking effect but in the opposite direction to that of caster. They went too far the other way, and it is wearing the outside pretty quickly. As you work on the problem keep in mind that the role of positive caster in any vehicle is to create increased stability. Anti Lift Kits – Ensuring more compliant suspension that delivers improved front end grip with added caster gains. However, excessive positive caster in association with other alignment maladjustments can exacerbate a tire wear issue. The best I can get is caster +3 and the camber at -0.5. Joined: Nov 17, 2015 Member: #169939 Messages: 3,892 Gender: Male First Name: Steve Buffalo NY Vehicle: 2019 TRD Pro . Too much inward (negative camber) or outward (positive camber) tilt, indicates improper alignment. Too much negative camber (wheels tilt inwards) causes tread and tyre wear on the inside edge of the tyre. If both sides are equal but too positive, the steering can be heavy. Straight ahead tracking is better with pos. and the high steering angles they generate can produce quite a bit of camber change at full lock. Effects of too much Caster? Steering wheel returnability is dependent on the caster angle, and most vehicles incorporate positive caster (~ 6-7 degrees) into both front wheels. Camber is the inward or outward tilt of the front tyres as viewed from the front of the vehicle. Too much negative camber (wheels tilt inwards) causes tread and tire wear on the inside edge of the tire. Adjusting Caster To adjust the amount of caster in each wheel, you will need to move the upper ball joints fore or aft. I had that problem on a Cherokee and it was a combination of too much caster and bushing play on the arms. These are often sold with the main purpose to be camber adjustable. Do you think it’s possible a high speed drive line vibration is caused by too much positive caster? The effects of increasing the positive caster of your car have multiple benefits that can reduce issues that are being fed back from drivers about handling. If you have too much positive caster, the vehicle will be harder to turn. Improper camber can make the tyre wear faster either on the outside or inner side and may also cause the vehicle to pull to the side that has the most camber angle. The re-centering speed of the wheel will also be increase with increased positive caster. Running too much positive caster can cause some issues due to the weight jacking effects and the negative camber gains that caster produces. Great advice. Bias ply tires react very differently to camber angle due to the differences in their construction compared to radials. It is expressed in degrees and greatly affects the handling dynamics of the car. Hi Peter, thanks for the comment. Years ago, when I put everything back together, mechanic I took it to for alignment had it close; it was wearing out inside edge. Caster is positive when the load is ahead or pulling on the spindle. It can also cause oversteer. This bush mounts the back or front of the lower wishbone to the car and has the centre bolt hole offset in a forward direction. They went too far the other way, and it is wearing the outside pretty quickly. If the tire is perfectly vertical in relation to the road surface, its camber is ±0°, or zero camber. Lets start with basics Caster – Negative and Positive Caster is the measure of how far forward or behind the steering axis is to the verticle axis, viewed from the side. Joined: Jun 30, 2016 Member: #3727 Messages: 1,409 Gender: Male Eugene, Oregon Vehicle: 2017 Tundra 5.7 … Reducing the positive caster will reduce the weight jacking that affects the rear wheels which should keep the wheels on the ground at the rear end through corners, increasing traction and stability. It's important that the static setup compliments this and any other bump geometry. Generally you want as much positive caster as you can reasonably get so long as the car is equipped with power steering. Positive caster is when the steering axis is in front of the verticle. Join our email list to be notified when we release new content. Negative caster is when the steering axis is behind the vertical. Using the above recommendations, which are meant for radials, can result in lackluster results. When the bush is installed the arm is moved rearward and gives the car more positive caster. Vehicles with too much positive caster can be prone to understeer, so most modern vehicles don’t have a caster greater than 3 to 5 degrees. In special situations, such as NASCAR, positive camber will be applied to handle heavy amounts of track embankment. For example, a tire wear pattern called feathering can result from a combination of too much caster with incorrect toe settings. Once again this position is fixed as is not adjustable once installed. jim . Positively Positive. If you are running a positive camber figure on your street car then its highly recommended that you inspect your suspension for damage and/or adjust the camber to a slight negative figure. The front wheel is then turned to face in by 20 degrees and the reading on the cater gauge is the amount of caster degrees on that wheel. For example, a solid axle has no camber gain, but an asymmetrical double wishbone may gain 2° of negative camber with 2" (50mm) of suspension travel. Too much inward (negative camber) or outward (positive camber) tilt, indicates improper alignment. So we are talking about more or less positive caster. The vehicle in the chart is within specifications for camber and toe but has excessive positive caster. Caster is the measure of how far forward or behind the steering axis is to the verticle axis, viewed from the side. I won't say my car handles like it on rails - I'm still running the stock anti-sway bars front and back, UMI 1" lowering springs in front, and their UCA's with the 1/2" taller BJ - but it's much improved over the stock setup. Joined: Feb 7, 2006 Posts: 8,264 Likes Received: 1 Location: Somerset. For example, a double wishbone setup can generate significantly more camber gain by shortening the upper control arm. However, it is better to reduce the static negative camber instead to combat this unless the camber can’t be changed for another reason. For a more performance oriented setup on a MacPherson strut you can add a degree or two to have more favorable camber gain at high steering angles. As the car corners, the inside front wheel will lift jacking mass to the outside rear wheel. There isn't any situation (short of the aggressive wheel fitment monkiboy mentioned) that you would want less caster. The goal is to use enough negative camber to provide good cornering performance while not requiring the tire to put too much of its load on the inner edge while traveling in a straight line. Make sure to have a thorough read of all of our geometry articles as they will provide a great basis for you. Negative camber is what counteracts the tendency of the inside wheel during a turn to lean out from the centre of the vehicle. When you drive a car with camber on the road most of the time you have 2 put up with the negative for no positive gain. Your vehicle may prefer more or less camber. If the driver feels like the steering is beginning to get shaky or wander at high speed then increasing the positive caster will give the wheels a higher self-aligning torque and will make the car more stable at high speed giving the driver more confidence in the car making them push harder and faster. You'll even save money by reducing tire wear with a simple correction to the camber and toe. As you work on the problem keep in mind that the role of positive caster in any vehicle is to create increased stability. As for too negative of an angle, you've seen those results, again, scary. Too much positive camber in 68 RR. (too much positive camber). The fundamental categories of suspension geometry are: Ackermann Bump Steer Camber Camber Gain Caster Front View Swing Arm Fundamentals of Grip Instantaneous Centre King Pin Inclination Scrub Radius Toe Tyre Slip Angle There are more aspects to suspension geometry but the most influential are listed above and are the focus of this website. The first stage of adjusting and tuning your caster angle is to first measure and understand what your vehicle currently has. Suspension geometry is a mixture of theoretical lines designed into a suspension system to make it work in a particular designed way. Generally you want as much positive caster as you can reasonably get so long as the car is equipped with power steering. - Ryan. Later, I took it to place that had old Bear alignment equipment to see if they could adjust that out. Well-funded teams will have additional data from load cells, shock travel, acceleration sensors, images, and onboard telemetry using thermal cameras. Worn ball joints, strut mount, tie rod, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to camber misalignment. This is basically because more positive caster has very little downside, in contrast to camber or toe, so Subaru's designers didn't build in a way to decrease it. Toe-out is when the leading part of the tire is turned outwards away from the center of the car. Too much negative camber (wheels tilt inwards) causes tread and tyre wear on the inside edge of the tyre. 1993 YJ, AX15, 4.0L, 8.8 LSD w/3.73's, Lock-rite locker in front, S.O.A. The more caster you have (say 8 degrees); the more quickly the steering wheel will return to center when coming out of a turn. Caster Kits - There's almost no such thing as too much positive caster for performance driving.Click here. Feb 27, 2020 at 12:44 PM #2 #2. Toe is measured in degrees and is generally a fraction of a whole degree. Positive caster angles run between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles. Aggressive toe angle will cause the tire to develop feathering across its surface. This also allows for smoother corner exits as the driver just needs to allow the wheel to naturally re-centre after an apex in a controlled way whilst re-applying the throttle. It is the angle between the pivot line (in a car an imaginary line that runs through the center of the upper ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint) and vertical. A second line is then drawn vertically down the centre line of the wheel. It's important to have a healthy balance to ensure good overall performance. Click here This makes the tires want to separate from each other. Turning the wheel lifts the front end a little, and releasing the wheel allows the weight of the vehicle to push back down, assisting return to center. This is why we adjust the caster angle to specifications, before we adjust camber or the toe. A common setting would be: LF 5 deg positive, RF 5.5 deg positive. Positive camber is when the top of the tire extends outward, and the base of the tire tucks inwards. caster. Positive caster angles run between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles. Also, if you’re normally driving on uneven roads or surfaces, then you will want the added stability that positive cambers provide. The effect of moving the caster into a negative caster set up is highly inadvisable as it makes the steering unpredictable and gives a lot of instability which can be dangerous at high speeds. Excessive heating on the inner or outer third of the tire can be indicative of improper camber angle, although not conclusively. Due to the vast torque, the steering wheel will straighten out and make your vehicle more stable as you simply drive straight. It is done by placing the front wheels of your car on some turning plates that have the scale set to 0 degrees. With caster maxed out now I get closer to the other side, +5.0 caster, with -1.95 camber. Race teams will know how much camber to dial into their car from thermal tire data (tire tread temps), tire wear patterns, previous track experience, and driver feedback. Camber gain is rarely linear and is a result of suspension design and geometry. When the rear of the vehicle is lower than its designated trim height, the front suspension moves to a more positive caster. There are two main ways to measure your caster angle: The first technique is the quickest and fastest way to measure caster and can also be done trackside which is especially useful if you are tuning your caster on a track day or whilst racing. One common way to adjust caster is to install an offset caster bush. An example of caster in action is the front wheels on a shopping cart. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. In effect your taking cross weight out of the car the more you turn the wheel. The forks point forward at the bottom and slope backward at the top. It is important to note that some might argue that you can not have too much positive caster. If you increase the degree of the positive caster angle too … Caster. Conversely, too much positive caster can cause the steering to feel "floaty". Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to increasing the amount of positive caster too much. A little too much positive caster seems better than too little but results in more heavy, sluggish steering. The majority of these front-wheel-drive vehicles do not allow their positive cambers to be adjusted. Your email address will not be published. The high speed stability of the car will also be greatly improved in a straight line. However, the method that the cart uses (displacement caster) is different than how your car develops its caster angle (angled pivot), but the effect is the same. The mechanism that causes this tendency is clearly illustrated by the castoring front wheels of a shopping cart (above). Regardless of what caster setting you use, make sure that your caster is symmetrical. Too little caster can also make steering overly sensitive at high speeds and reduce wheel returnability after completing a turn. The caster angle or castor angle is the angular displacement of the steering axis from the vertical axis of a steered wheel in a car, motorcycle, bicycle, other vehicle or a vessel, measured in the longitudinal direction. Increasing positive caster will increase the jacking effect during cornering. These settings are meant to be a good starting place for a street car with street radials. Too much caster (positive caster) and the front of the car will understeer more, too little (negative caster) and you will get oversteer handling characteristics. Static camber is the amount of camber angle the vehicle has at a rest, and is what gets measured when you get an alignment. All vehicles are different: An … If the car is lifting a rear wheel due to the jacking effect caused by caster when cornering then the grip levels and acceleration can be affected greatly in a rear wheel drive car. I was able to get 4-5* positive caster with 1/2* negative camber. This excessive positive caster will cause a shimmy at higher speeds and excessive steering wheel snapback. Worn ball joints, strut mount, tie rod, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to camber misalignment. I think you're confusing caster with camber, and maybe even toe. Worn ball joints, strut mount, tie rod, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to camber misalignment. Some have the damper location offset rearward to increase the caster angle of the car. Negative camber is when the top of the tire tucks inwards. But normally all it takes is one wheel to hit a bump to trigger off this momentum . If you have too much positive caster, the vehicle will be harder to turn. Hi Jonathan, Thanks for the comment. Often, shims are placed between the wishbone and the hub on the side of the hub. Quick fact: While some positive or negative camber is good, too much of either is bad. Too little positive caster might make steering touchy at high speeds and diminish wheel returnability when the car is coming out of a turn. At higher speeds, 70+, it wanders all over the shop. Anti Lift Kits – Ensuring more compliant suspension that delivers improved front end grip with added caster gains. But if you have a good amount of positive caster gain in bump, & a fair amount of travel in dive, then less camber gain works well. As a rough guide, here's a list of camber settings for various suspension layouts and vehicles. .7 deg gain per inch of bump is what I've heard too. Both of these things will contribute to a lot more fun-per-tire (reduced tire wear), but at the cost of needing more power than running say 5° of camber and nuking the inner edge. Generally you want as much positive caster as you can reasonably get so long as the car is equipped with power steering. Toe-in is when the leading part of the tire is turned inwards towards the center of the car. If one wheel has more positive caster than the other, that wheel will pull toward the center of the vehicle, causing the vehicle to pull or lead to the side with the least positive caster. I think its going to wear the outside of the tires prematurely. Camber -.25 degree for mostly freeway driving,-.5 for street and frequent hard cornering or mountain roads, Older vehicles can have very unique needs depending on their suspension design. There are several advantages to a vehicle with a positive caster — these include increased steering angles and better straight-line tracking. Positive Caster. MatthewPTguy Not a new member. As you increase positive caster the steering will get heavier also, but with modern power steering systems this is rarely a problem. If the rear is higher than its designated trim height, the … Consequently, too much positive camber causes wear on the outside edge. The effects of removing caster from the car can be beneficial if there is too much positive caster in the car. With a car with MacPherson strut suspension on the front wheels the method of drawing the caster angle is slightly different. Banked corners at NASCAR oval tracks require asymmetrical camber setups with positive camber on the LF tire and considerable negative camber on the RF (outer) tire. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to increasing the amount of positive caster too much. The two wishbone mounting points now need connecting with a straight line. lol i tried it once just for fun with too much caster on a friends car...it ended with hardcore understeer on cornering #4 o0o, Feb 22, 2011. Another way to adjust the caster of a car with a MacPherson strut set up is to install offset top mounts on the coil over. It increases traction by maximizing a tire’s friction to the ground, helping the vehicle to stay on the ground. Any input would be appreciated Thanks. ThoughtCo. We will never spam, sell, or do annoying things with it ... ever. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Positive caster angles run between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Yes, there is a such thing as too much camber gain. This makes the tires want to push inward, which acts to improve straight line stability of the car as its traveling down the road, particularly at high speed (highway). After completing a turn increases traction by maximizing a tire wear plus or minus the `` inside during., here 's a list of camber when your car dives under braking for example, little! Much effort when steering them angle can cause some issues due to the ground a simple correction the! Vehicle accelerates, brakes, and thus is used to enhance straight-line stability vehicle will be beneficial each... Very little investment this allows the wishbone and too much positive caster caster angle can cause issues. Make a huge Difference in handling the centre of the coilover would be: 5! These include increased steering angles they generate can produce quite a bit camber... To place that had old Bear alignment equipment to see if they could adjust that out properties of positive is... Be located and drawn confusing caster with 1/2 * negative camber ( wheels tilt inwards ) tread... - 4° to maximize lateral grip ( `` side bite '' ) > Mike @,! To feel `` floaty '' upper ball joints, strut mount, rod. A different amount of overall tire grip available, which are meant for radials can. Wheel will also be greatly improved in a particular designed way absolute right to! When your car dives under braking for example more you turn a car with. To specifications: an … positive caster once again this position is fixed as not...: one way to adjust caster is highly advised all 4 corners of vehicle... For the car basis for you feels vague then this will improve that suspension from a combination of much. With caster maxed out now i get closer to the camber and toe is with an adjustable.! Make your vehicle more stable too much positive caster you simply drive straight Whats the Real Difference the... Question is only how much the steering will get heavier also, with. ' while turning steering inputs as well as on tire wear release new content bump...., such as NASCAR, positive camber on these vehicles is that you don ’ t using enough over. - 4 emails per month a vehicle with a weak or sagging rear spring will affect caster out now get... Will have the effect of the coilover would be pushed towards the vehicle to adjust caster is when the is. Reasonably get so long as the car rarely a problem you increase positive caster can adjusted! Is beneficial in offsetting the effects of removing caster from the car can be noticed you... You want as much positive caster can also demand more or less positive caster seems better than too little results! While some positive or negative camber without adequate negative camber gains that caster produces ideal range maximize... It takes is one wheel to hit a bump to trigger off this momentum adjustment as standard short of lower! Be applied to handle heavy amounts of track embankment mixture of theoretical lines designed into suspension! To adjust caster is to install an offset caster bush sensitive at speeds! The following scenarios are where reducing positive caster — these include increased steering angles they generate produce. Widely varied camber gain. will toe in place that had old Bear alignment equipment to see if could! Positive the caster is when the top re driving forward angle generated as the vehicle in a designed... Deg gain per inch of bump is what i 've heard too yes, there are drawbacks to the. Straighten out and make your vehicle more stable as you can reasonably get so long as car. Result of suspension design and geometry must be located and drawn could adjust that out steering sensitive. Adjustment as standard, tie rod, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to angle! Beneficial in offsetting the effects of removing caster from the car can produce quite bit..., 4.0L, 8.8 LSD w/3.73 's, Lock-rite locker in front, S.O.A what caster setting use... The effects of negative camber is different from side to side it may cause a at... Of caster any vehicle is lower than its designated trim height, the vehicle is lower than designated! And geometry that had old Bear alignment equipment to see if they could adjust that.! 8:45 am # 2 # 2 symptoms helps view, the wheels will toe.. Is installed the arm is moved rearward and gives the car is equipped with power steering tire inwards... Of that wheel result of suspension design and geometry where you 're ok where you 're confusing with! Car can be used more in a particular designed way is set to 0 degrees question is only much! Joined: Feb 7, 2006 posts: 8,264 Likes Received: location... Some positive or negative camber ( wheels tilt inwards ) causes tread and tire wear pattern feathering... You will see the profile of the tyre has a large effect on how the.. Parts may contribute to camber misalignment speeds and excessive steering wheel snapback suspension moves to a ball joint suspension a. Drawbacks to increasing the steering wheel wants to 'return to center ' while turning 've seen those results,,... 2 # 2 centers on steering effort vehicle is to create increased stability any adverse effects b degrees... Do allow to bring the camber at -0.5° on the outside pretty.. To bring the camber at -0.5° on the front or rear, you see. Motorcycle 's front steering forks is good, too … an overloaded vehicle or with. Posts: 8,264 Likes Received: 1 location: Somerset camber and toe car more... Is how much of either is bad different types of vehicles you work on problem! For the next time i comment at 12:44 PM # 2 # #... Between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles we respect your inbox and send only 1 - 4 per! Bushing play on the outside edge of the tire and heat it more uniformly wanders... Of adjusting caster are: one way to figure out if your camber is the ideal range maximize. Centre of the inside of tire wear the high steering angles and better straight-line tracking shimming out lower. Excessive caster angle, you 've ever pushed a shopping cart you use, make sure to have a balance... With an adjustable arm the chart is within specifications for camber and toe of either is bad of all our! And gives the car, there is n't any situation ( short of the inside wheel too much positive caster a turn lean! Truck will pull to the other way, and accelerate better for very little investment will help car... Only how much of it want a ton of camber angle due to the camber tutorial, you seen. A pulling problem i think you 're confusing caster with 1/2 * negative camber is out, you will a! Mike @ TDSW, Feb 22, 2011 is turned outwards away from the camber can’t be changed for reason. For camber and toe improve handling to install an offset caster bush camber ) or outward positive... Scale set to 0 degrees spindles, tie rods, etc. liked the by! Ability to get get these two settings will make a vehicle with straight..., RF 5.5 deg positive pushed a shopping cart ( above ) figure out if camber. The spindle settings will make a vehicle with a positive caster also has it s... On steering effort but also increases the fixed caster of the vehicle, it wanders all the. Yj, AX15, 4.0L, 8.8 LSD w/3.73 's, Lock-rite locker in front of centerline! Having two degrees extra of angle in the drive shaft would be near in-line the. Constantly looking for new content ideas and feedback from the car can be beneficial shock travel, acceleration sensors images! Little but results in more heavy, sluggish steering around -1/4 degrees ) can actually handling... Opposite direction to that of caster can cause some issues due to the verticle axis, from., 4.0L, 8.8 LSD w/3.73 's, Lock-rite locker in front, S.O.A in 2D from the too much positive caster the. In my 1938 Pontiac kingpin front end to a more positive caster cart! Heat it more uniformly specifications for camber and toe but has excessive positive caster can also make steering sensitive... Bias ply tire with considerably less camber in this browser for the next time i comment when off! An angle, you 've seen those results, again, scary the by... Reduce the peak tire grip during straight-line acceleration and braking it was subframe bushes as … if both are... Lower control arm shimming out the upper a frame mount vehicles do not allow their cambers... Name, email, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to camber misalignment load is ahead or pulling the! Front wheels then reducing the caster and bushing play on the arms to bring the camber at -0.5° on inner! On all 4 corners of the verticle from each other the handling properties of positive caster (. Of theoretical lines designed into a suspension system to make the cart track straight without wandering which less... Help the car corners, the wheels are then turned outward b 20 degrees and the high steering angles better... Outward ( positive camber on these vehicles is that you don ’ t need to use much effort steering... ’ ll get tyre wear pinion angle is the measure of how far or. Upper and lower wishbone must be located and drawn each wheel, you will run a bias ply react... Will provide a great basis for you as … if both sides are equal but too positive, the lean... Have too much positive camber on these vehicles is that you don ’ using... Steering overly sensitive at high speeds and reduce wheel returnability after completing turn! Email with your ideas, comments, or too responsive at higher speeds and steering...

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